One of the things you’ve told us is there are resources and expertise in the community that schools can tap into to support learning. Some school districts, such as Peace River North, are doing this already.
How can schools partner with community members and organizations to create meaningful learning experiences? Why might this be important?
Summary to date:
Here’s a summary of what you’ve said so far. Click on the links beside each theme to read supporting examples.
- Partner with Libraries/Libraries as a conduit (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
- Enhance partnerships between schools and the community are a good thing (1, 2, 3, 4)
- Bring retirees/experts into the schools (1, 2,3, 4)
- Have students perform work terms to learn trades, skills, gain experience (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
- Additional overlap between schools and community not wanted/impossible (1, 2, 3)
- Create cross-ministry strategies (1)
Please leave a comment below if you’d like to contribute to this topic.
School community partnerships go beyond the designated district ‘community school’ concept. Most schools encourage community support of all kinds – including mentorship of students by those with expertise in specific areas (most of us) and encouraging interaction between community members and students.
The BC Retired Teachers Association offers a number of awards annually to schools around the province who have established means of connecting seniors with students in meaningful ways. I have had the privilege of adjudicating submissions for the “Golden Star Award” for the past few years and am inspired by the different kinds of school/community interactions that exist around the province.
I’d encourage everyone to go to the BC Retired Teachers Association website (www.bcrta.ca) to see information on the Golden Star Awards and to get an application form if you know of a programme that we could recognize. Submission deadline is April 15 of each year.
Sounds like a great program, Steve!
Hi all,
My question, “What is a community school?” is answered by Wikipedia:
“A community school is both a place and a set of partnerships between the school and other community resources. Its integrated focus on academics, youth development, family support, health and social services and community development,leads to improved student learning,stronger families and healthier communities.Using public schools as hubs,community schools bring together many partners to offer a range of supports and opportunities to children, youth, families and communities -before, during and after school, and on weekends.”
It sounds perfect in that a rather smallish school that is fostered by the entire community, as if all of its members act like an extended family and village, which is needed to “raise a child”.
Moreover, in this system, new comers can be more easily integrated and quickly learn the differences, such as ways of educating children, dealing with resources, recycling, sharing ideas and pets(!), and so on.
Well managed, relationships can be more meaningful; thus, promotes understanding. And perhaps, problems, if arises, could be detected quicker and so finding the solution would be easier in this co-operative family like environment.
Is that right? Please help me to understand.
Hi Sylvia. You may be interested to visit the ACE bc website (Association of Community Education in British Columbia – http://www.acebc.org/) as it provides everything there is to know about community schools. Our Neighbourhood Learning Centre website (http://www.neighbourhoodlearningcentres.gov.bc.ca/) is also helpful. It explains how community schools are a model of NLCs and further provides examples of success stories, stages of development etc.
Thank you Mike.
There was a presentation at the Burnaby School Board meeting tonight by ACEbc. And six extraordinary students came along showing off what they could do!
And reading a few pages on the Web site, I see the community school bears an amazing concept. However, I am sure that the “kids” nowadays are pressured to the extreme that their brain runs without their mind. Machine. computer chips.
We need to slow down: babies’ swim lessons evolves into the primary school via the bridging program that is called “kindergarten.”
And after the primary school of healing process and through the enhancing middle school education of humanity, advances to the high school for “habilitation” or “rehabilitation” without any tint of vocational something involved (Add G-13 for this or another).
The result would be blissful….
Otherwise, it is just a concept of something supposed to be good.
Our “kids” need to be kids for “sometime, not guppies, those fully functional at the birth….
Bowen Island has a fabulous community school, which I attended as a child, and which has been an integral part of the community (the relationship goes 2 ways) for all of my life. The benefits of involving students in their community and involving community in the students’ education, as well as of having the students and other community coexist under one roof are really huge. The community school coordinator does an amazing job, but often has her position questioned and/or threatened by the WV School District, as I believe we are now the only remaining community school within the district.
I would like very much for BICS to encouraged in this manner instead of tolerated. My own children are homeschooled, and I have heard of other schools who not only welcomed homeschoolers, but provided them with meeting space, library use, etc. so that they were kept involved with their community. Yet a few years ago, when I ran a mothering program at BICS, and invited the head of the homelearning centre here to speak at the mothering program, I was told that he was not welcome on BICS property, because “every child lost to BICS is money lost to BICS”. It was at that point that I knew I would never send my children to a school that considered them a means to financial gain. Why cannot our communities be celebrated for the rich, diverse, and beautiful organisms that they are, instead of divided into competitive factions?
Of course my children do participate in some community programs at BICS, and I believe that the relationship between the homelearning support centre and BICS has improved, but I think there is still room for improvement. A community school that truly celebrates the diversity of the wider community has a much better chance of preparing children for their adult roles in that community.
Not sure if this really answers the question but:
Could students train to be teachers not by the traditional method of attending (and paying tuition to attend) university for four years; but rather, by learning directly in a school classroom alongside a regular, paid teacher, with their learning further supplemented by online, theoretical training (including written assignments and exams). The benefits would include:
- a second full-time/part-time adult in each and every classroom to assist the classroom teacher, at no significant cost to the school/SD (since these students would not be paid – just as they would not be paid for attending university on a daily basis);
- I would make these students (those receiving their teacher training through a combined onsite/online learning model) actually pay tuition fees to the school/SD in which they are receiving their ‘onsite’ training (an actual ‘revenue producer’ for the SD) ;
- of course students would benefit from having a second adult in the classroom (more attention, someone to help with ‘behaviour’ kids, etc.)
- the classroom teacher would have an adult assistant to help them, each and every day – reduce stress and workload – ?
Thoughts …
I think this could be wonderful for some students who mentor with great teachers, and disastrous for some who may end up with not-so-great teachers.
I also have a deep concern with teachers-in-training being seen as an income boost for school districts. When financial gain is tied to learning, learning loses, as decisions are made to maximize profit instead of maximizing quality. And do we want our children (in elementary school or in teacher-mentorship programs) to be bearing the fallout of such a financially motivated system?
Thanks Emily; you do make some very good points. That being said, I do believe that there are going to be ‘pros and cons’ to everything, and to every education model. In terms of suspected ‘cons’ to my proposed model, we could perhaps mitigate the risk of negative impacts by tweaking the model a bit (e.g., a ‘teacher in training’ gets matched-up with a different teacher each school year, thereby giving the ‘student’ great exposure to teachers of all calibre, different teaching styles, different curriculum, etc.).
Bottom line is, we need to start ‘thinking-outside-of-the-box’ and piloting new ideas and models in order to advance and prosper as a Province (and yes, some ‘pilots’ will fail, and there will be some collateral damage; but, the alternative of keeping with the status quo scares me more).
PS:
Next time you are in Vancouver, drive through the downtown eastside, and then ask yourself just how successful, in meeting the needs (including mental health needs), dreams and aspirations of all of our precious children, our current education (and health) system has been. I feel desperate to try anything that might result in better outcomes for all of society’s children.
Heather, I often go downtown; I take my kids along there, in fact, to allow them to be aware of our culture’s failings, and to be open to the world that we inhabit, and the diversity of humanity.
But your proposal would do far more for finances than it would for the fates of our schooled children. I don’t think it’s nearly far enough “outside the box”, as you say.
Emily,
I believe that the fates of our children will very much be tied to the finances of this Province.
Also, I fail to understand what would be so wrong with a new system that could potentially help this Province educate new teachers more effectively and economically (i.e., more effectively via enhanced mentorship, and more economically because if teachers could receive their training within existing school classrooms/infrastructure, supplemented by at-home, online learning, could we not reduce the need for college and/or university classrooms, and their associated building maintenance costs?)
However, I do agree with you Emily that I should extend my thinking even further ‘outside-the-box’
In my opinion, the programs, as Big Brother, Big Sister, Grand Parents Association, and other possible mentoring-kids programs, including the business entities in the community, would best work out if they are connected by the schools, initiated by the teachers, not parents
I think the community should be engaged in schools by providing the human resources to teach the subjects such as home economics, physical education, coaching competitive teams, languages and music. In these cases, it is either difficult to find teachers with these schools and there are people in the community that have these skills (eg. languages) , or, it is very easy to find these skills in the community (eg cooking, sewing and sports related activities). I think these areas should be taken outside the area of ‘qualified teachers’ and put into the area of ‘qualifed contractors’. The pay scale for teachers should reflect what they are actually doing in the school. In some cases, a teacher may be the contractor for some of these ‘outside’ activities.
I agree, Joan. Thank-You for your comment. Along similar lines of thought, perhaps parents can take a stronger role in schools (as volunteers). Children have the benefit of knowing their parent(s) feel that school is important, and young children feel very proud when their parent comes to school. Parents have a variety of skills that would benefit the school….from lawyers judging debate competitions, to nurses teaching first aid/nutrition, scientists helping with science fairs, to politicians MC’ing assembles. Why Not?
I agree! However, my husband, a marine biologist, has offered countless times to come into my childrens’ school to show the attending children a slideshow on the marine life that surrounds Vancouver Island. To-date, not one teacher has taken him up on his free offer.
Is there a teacher out there who could shed some light on this for us?
I agree totally. No person should be home schooling a child unless they are actually able to prove they are competent to do so. Many home schooling parents do a good job, but,especially when a student reaches ssecondary school, more it often needed.
Those who wish to homeschool a child past grade 7 need to be able to show they can meet the MANDATED learning outcomes. I would give them a chart showing the outcomes and have them tell how they would teach the outcome and then how would they evaluate it. For example, in Social Studies 10, one of the outcomes is: describe the factors that contributed to a changing national identity from 1815 to 1914. This is not something covered in, say, chapter 6 of the text. This requires in depth knowledge of Canadian history and a long term plan of instruction. And then, how can you insure the student has an idea and justification for it that shows real learning.
Don’t get me wrong here. I think there are advantages to home schooling for many students – like small class size – but the home teacher needs to be able to do what the mandated learning outcomes require – and I am not sure if many or even most of them have any familiarity with these.
This is an interesting thread about homeschooling – what do others think? It would be especially interesting to hear from students, parents, educators, or community members who have experience in this area. Here is some background information about the current policies:
-The School Act (section 12) provides parents with the statutory right to educate their children at home. http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/legislation/schoollaw/revisedstatutescontents.pdf-The Ministry states that “homeschooling allows students to work at their own pace and parents to blend family, life and schoolwork into their own schedule. Homeschooling is the full responsibility of the parent, is not supervised by a British Columbia certified teacher, is not required to meet provincial standards, and is not inspected by the Ministry of Education.” http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/home_school/#hpar-There are differences between homeschooling and Distributed Learning programs: http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/dist_learning/dl_vs_homeschool.htm
I don’t have any issues with a parent home schooling their child but I think there should be some requirement to be engaged in a home-schooling group for group activities and to maintain some contact with the school system. There may be cases where the parent is doing a poor job that some interference may be necessary but I would expect this to be unusual. Students often enough come across teachers who do little more than hand out work sheets. I would consider that also a poor education.
Thank you, Joan.
Thank you Virginia for posting the links regarding “homeschool” versus “Distributed Learning”. There is a huge difference between the two methods that most people don’t understand.
As a parent who recently embarked on the path of Distributed Learning for our son, I spent many hours researching our choices. With Distributed Learning, I HAVE to meet mandated outcomes but the way that I teach my son is our choice. That’s the difference. I work with a BC Certified educator that points us in the right direction to fulfill these outcomes but how I use his suggestions and guideance is up to me. I use his suggestions to create an interesting lesson plan that my son will enjoy. I do the research, I go to the library and in my spare time, I find exciting ideas online.
I may not know the minute details of Canadian History off the top of my head so I do my own research before I even begin to work on a topic with my son. With Distributed Learning, I find MYSELF learning (or re-learning) things that I didn’t even know and discovering new things with my son as we work through the subject together.
Do you know what I remember about Canadian History from my school years? Nothing. Why? Because I wasn’t engaged, I wasn’t excited and I wasn’t interested in reading text books, listening to the same rehearsed (tried and true) lesson that my teacher had given to the 5 classes ahead of me and the many that came after me. At the time, I read the texts, I made notes on the lessons and I memorized the facts and then I recalled those facts and rewrote those answers on the test sheet. Subject “learned”, right? Does that mean I “learned” Canadian History? No, it means heard it and then repeated it and when we moved on to the next topic, I promptly forgot it. Does the fact that I don’t remember that topic make my teacher any less competent? Should THEY be tested because I failed to remember anything they taught me? Does learning a subject only count if the student remembers all the details for the rest of their lives? Only when people are truly interested in a subject, do they remember the details.
My son may not remember the details of Canadian History when he is older, especially if it doesn’t interest him, but I’m almost SURE that he will remember the efforts we took to teach him. He will remember the trips to Barkerville, Victoria or Fort Langley or the museums or galleries….the point is, his lessons will be “fresh”, just as his sister will have “fresh” lessons. (I’m not saving my lesson plans to reuse over and over like a teacher would.) They will be fun and educational and hopefully that is what will help him remember his “mandated” subjects.
Why does having a 4 year degree make a teacher any more qualified than a parent to teach a child? Do you believe that in 4 years, a teacher absorbs all the knowledge they need to teach any grade they choose for the rest of their career? I hate to burst the bubble but teaching textbooks have the answers in the back. Sure, after years of using the same lesson plans, teachers probably could recite the answers off the top of their head but that’s called memorization, not knowledge. Having a teaching degree does not make every teacher exceptional or any smarter than the average person. Personally, I know a few teachers with teaching degrees and their lack of common sense is shocking. There are some things that a 4 year degree just can’t teach. It’s those teachers, and many more for other reasons, that should have to prove that THEY are competent to teacher hundreds of students during their careers. I am only doing my best to raise and education two children.
The law of British Columbia recognizes the fundamental freedom of parents to choose the education that shall be given to their children, as outlined in the United Nations’ Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It is widely recognized that the family, and not the state, is ultimately responsible for the education of children. As such the state is accountable to the family on educational matters, not vice versa (hence report cards go to parents).
Those who suggest that parents be “accountable” for their children’s education simply do not understand that they already are. Our law in British Columbia is clear: if any person should have evidence that a parent is not fulfilling their responsibility to provide a program of education for their child, they can ask the superintendent of schools in the district where the child resides to investigate. There is therefore no need for any further “special” regulation for home education. In fact, recent studies have shown that there is absolutely no evidence that home-educated students in more heavily regulated jurisdictions have better academic achievement than those in less heavily regulated areas. What is universally acknowledged, however, is that home-educated students do well in all areas of life–academic success, employment, social interaction, and life satisfaction. And in British Columbia we have more than 20 years of success under our current law, which recognizes the autonomy of the family in the area of education. We have the example of thousands of home-educated young people who have gone on to carve unique paths for themselves. Some have chosen higher education, some have gone straight into satisfying careers, some have entered the arts, and some are now parents themselves.
The British Columbia Home Learners’ Association (BCHLA) is proud to represent the thousands of families that have chosen to take complete responsibility for the education of their children. Our children’s happiness and success in their chosen fields of endeavor is the ultimate demonstration that the oldest form of education–parents teaching their own children–still works today.
Richard. Just no. As a Parent I will reserve my right to see my children educated how I feel is appropriate Ie: home, private, or public.
I disagree. Why should a parent with absolutely no teaching credentials and experience have the automatic right to homeschool their child (potentially producing a poorly-educated citizen who will likely become a burden on society)? Homeschooling one’s own child should not be an automatic right, but should only be allowed where the parent can demonstrate that they have the knowledge, skills and ability to educate children to a certain, pre-defined standard.
Heather, what you are suggesting is really unreasonable. First of all it assumes that the “standards” set out by the education system are the only right answer (and I would argue that for many students they are not the right answer at all). I have unschooled my kids for their whole educational career (see them at http://rickshawunschooling.blogspot.com) and, while I remain totally uneducated in a provincial system, I am pleased to note that they are not suffering.
Secondly, your assertion assumes that there is a measuring stick by which teachers can be judged — this is simply not so.
Also, your comments fail to recognize the huge role that parenting plays in a child’s upbringing. Teachers are, to some extent, parenting their students, especially at younger ages, and I think it should be entirely up to the parents not only who is sharing their parenting jobs, but how that parenting is done.
And lastly, I see absolutely no reason why PLO’s should trump a healthy childhood. Not all children are the same. My unschooled children excel in some areas while neglecting others entirely, and I have learned only by waiting long enough that the neglected areas do, eventually, get caught up with… when my kids are ready and engaged of their own volition. And these are children who are raised without curriculum, without coercive teaching or parenting, and without many of the things that their schooled peers get from school (organized sports, large facilities, etc.) They have rich and fulfilling lives, social engagements as they wish, both with groups of other homeschoolers and with schooled friends, thriving imaginations, and very few of the peer-pressure-related troubles that their schooled friends seem to have. I wasn’t nearly as convinced that we were on the right path until we went last year to an unschooling conference and discovered that my kids aren’t unique, as unschoolers. There were hundreds of well-rounded, sociable, intelligent, and happy children at that conference, and I know now more than ever what a wonderful choice this is for those of us who can manage it.
Heather, I encourage you to check our our blog, and those of other homeschoolers and unschoolers, and to learn more about this subject. I suspect that your fears will be settled. It’s hard to accept change, and it was a bit scary for us, too, when we started unschooling, because so many are so quick to warn about the certain damage we’re doing to our children. But I know now that exactly the opposite is true.
(Thank you for hearing my long post!)
Emily,
Thank you for your comment(s). I will reply to you as soon as I get a quiet moment to draft-up a proper and thoughtful response to your comments.
Thank you for your patience
Heather
Thank You Emily, for sharing your experiences! I’ve just checked what “unschooling” is.
“UNSCHOOLING”!
How exciting!
I am sure that public education should start engaging in unschooling process, urgently!
Let the children pace their own learning without being pushed with the “core-subject” concept. I believe also, too, what it does really good at is damaging children’s mind and unique ability. One reason or another, every person has different way and pace to learn about certain things.
What the teachers should really be good at is conducting conversation with the students, talking about matters, making questions, and investigating for the answers together, and learning from each other in doing so. Blooming or flowering humanity!
This way, there shouldn’t be so much marking times and preparing spreadsheet times. Perhaps than the class size wouldn’t be so much of problem, either!
What the schools have to do is: providing the environment so that students can put their hands on to this and to that … could it be very difficult?
Pre-post-secondary education should focus on developing humanity. Then, the “prolific” workers and business persons and character-building would definitely follow. Naturally.
Could there be any way to help government to go for this, forgetting about the vocational kick-starting of the students? Quickly?
Hi Emily,
First of all, thank you for providing me with your thoughful comments and that web address (I will definitely take a look at it, first chance I get). Thank you again Emily.
Second, please refer to the response I provided to Kim (below) as it touches on some of your comments as well.
Third, to address your comment about standards, standards over education set by the provincial government, in effect, represent (indirectly) the will and expectations of the very society to which all of our children, including yours, participate and reap benefits (benefits which are highly coveted by people all over the world). Also, why wouldn’t the teaching function (considered a profession in most circles) be governed by some ‘generally-accepted’ standards (there is no such thing as ‘perfect’ standards – and there never will be). For example, is not the work of doctors and nurses governed by standards established by the professional medical community (and aren’t you glad they are); is not the work performed in long-term care homes governed by a host of prescribed standards (e.g., bathing standards, resident-care standards, etc. – you may be glad they are one day); are licensed childcare centres not governed by prescibed standards and inspected regularly (I was glad they were when my children were attending); do restaurants not have to follow Food Safe standards (you will be glad they do next time you eat out); auditors are expected to comply with Generally Accepted Auditing Standards (good reasons for this); and the list goes on, and on, and on. As such, I cannot understand why there shouldn’t be some basic standards in this Province to govern the education function (one of the most important, if not THE MOST IMPORTANT, function performed in this Province). Having said this, I think that the homeschool community should be part of any consultation process on the setting of education standards, as it seems to me (from speaking with my friend who homeschools, and reading your, and Kim, and BCHLA parent’s comments) that the homeschool/unschool education community has many excellent ideas (I particularly like their views on the importance of adult-child attachment and bonding – the whole ‘CONNECT and then DIRECT’ concept that is talked about in the book: ‘HOLD ONTO YOUR KIDS’ by Gabor Mate and Gordon Neufeld; an excellent read).
Fourth (and a bit off topic, but this really hit me after reading the comment from the BCHLA parent: “The law of British Columbia recognizes the fundamental freedom of parents to choose the education that shall be given to their children”) – I think that Canada has made a huge mistake (just as Greece has done) in creating an inflated sense of entitlement (to RIGHTS, to FREEDOMS, to CHOICES, to BENEFITS, etc.) amongst its citizens. For example, individual Canadians have the right and freedom to do just about anything they want (even the right to drink alcohol excessively while pregnant and give birth to multiple children w/ debilitating mental illnesses such as FASD), but very few obligations (all of the resulting costs and victims created from individuals exercising “THEIR RIGHT TO …” become ‘the state’s’ obligation – NO?
Sometimes I worry that we as a society (and I am just as guilty) are incorrectly teaching our children that: ‘The World Revolves Around Them’ (e.g., you say Emily (partial quotes):
“… I am pleased to note that THEY are not suffering”; ” … when my kids are ready and engaged of THEIR OWN VOLITION …”; “.. THEY have rich and fulfilling lives, social engagements as THEY wish ..” That’s all great, but I think we also need to teach our children about the real world (i.e., that as adults, they won’t always get to do what THEY want to do, when THEY want to do it, how THEY want to do it, etc.).
Anyhow, just sharing with you how I feel Emily, and some of the worries I have (for all of our children).
Thanks for listening Emily
PS:
I am currently a ‘stay-at-home’ mom with kids in the public school system who volunteers within the school (I get to help many children this way), and who brings some of the children home with me after school (some of my kids’ friends whose parents have to work and are unable to pick their kids up at 2:40; allows these children to spend more time ‘at home/my home’ rather than in after-school-care portable).
One more thing: A good teacher is not just an expert in some field of knowledge (ie maths for maths teaching; “science” for science teaching, etc.), but s/he is a guide. In other words, a good listener, and helper of students to find the resources they need to learn what they want to know or to discover what is yet undiscovered. As an unschooling parent, I help my children to find the resources they need either online, in the city, or within our community, to answer the questions they have about the world and their interests. It is my job to be engaged, supportive, and open to their interests. There is, in this case, no difference between a good teacher, a good home/unschooling parent, and a good parent of a schooled child. All of us, in every community, have the same responsibilities to our children, and I would challenge anybody to create a measuring stick or pre-defined standard for good parenting.
“potentially producing a poorly-educated citizen who will likely become a burden on society”
This comment just floors me….I shake my head in disbelief that someone could actually say this.
Heather, have you taken the time to research the statistics on homeschooled children? Have you read how many drop out, poorly educated burdens on society that are produced by the public education system each year? Have you seen graduation rates or teen pregnancy statistics of publicly educated versus home educated students? How many “gifted” children come out of the public system every year?
Why should I been denied my right to remove my children from a system with those types of issues just because I have no “teaching credentials”? Are you saying that without teachers, children would learn nothing at all?
It seems as though post-secondary teaching credentials fail to prevent “burdens on society” as well.
Kim,
I apologize if I upset you by suggesting that this Province enact some basic quality control (e.g., standards, need for some basic credentials/KSAs, etc.) over those individuals (be they parents, teachers, etc.) involved in educating our children (although I suppose it was the ‘… POTENTIALLY producing poorly-educated citizens who will likely become burdens on society’ comment that upset you; yes, that was insensitive of me – apologies again).
Anyhow, a parent from the BCHLA (see comment above) was kind enough to help put my mind (and perhaps the minds of others) at ease, at least to some degree, by sharing the following information:
“Our law in British Columbia is clear: if any person should have evidence that a parent is not fulfilling their responsibility to provide a program of education for their child, they can ask the superintendent of schools in the district where the child resides to investigate.”
I am happy to hear that a mechanism to investigate alleged abuses exists, since I used to know of a family (they were involved in some kind of a private, home-based church) that appeared (although appearances can be deceptive and I may have been wrong) to define ‘homeschooling’ for their daughter to mean babysitting her baby brother out in the yard all day, while mom did other things inside the house. I felt bad for this little girl (a child should never be thought of as their family’s property – to do with as they please – to leave ‘uneducated’ if they so please; hmmm .. why did we send troops to Afghanistan again)? Having said that, I also know a family who homeschools their children (close friends of ours) that seem to be doing a fabulous job of it (and from reading your posted comments Kim, it sounds like you are also doing a terrific job). In terms of the family I know that appears to be doing a great job, my understanding is that this family follows the BC curriculum, consults with a certified BC educator, has their children write the FSAs, etc. so that they can get some meaningful, continuous feedback (and perhaps advice/ideas from time-to-time) from a qualified, independent, outside party. Sounds intelligent to me.
So you see Kim, it’s not that I am against homeschooling, it’s just that I want to see there be some basic controls in place to ensure that ALL homeschooled children receive an education that meets at least some minimum acceptable standard (at least in regards to the fundamental skills identified as necessary by the very society to which our children participate and belong).
Also, yes Kim, I am aware that research has shown that homeschooled children, on average, do better academically than children who have not been homeschooled. I was not suggesting, in my original comment above, that homeschooled children are less likely to get a quality education (and more likely to become burdens on society) than their public-school counterparts; that was your interpretation. However, I would also not be so ready to attribute the success (however ‘success’ is defined) of homeschooled children to their homeschooled learning environment (could be similar to attributing the successful rankings of private schools in the Fraser Institute Report to the teaching practices of private schools, rather than to the biological fact that rich kids often come from rich parents who often got rich based on being extraordinarily smart/talented). Now, I understand that the Fraser Institute has attempted to remove/lessen the influence that socio-economic forces place on school performance rankings (see Executive Summary of report) in an effort to isolate and directly link student performance to a school’s actual teaching performance; and as such, I wonder if the research on the success (e.g., # drop-outs, # kids who sucessfully go onto university, etc.) of homeschooled versus non-homeschooled children has also been adjusted to account for socio-economic/other factors. If not, I believe it should be, because, when I reflect on the couples I know who are financially sound enough to have the luxury of having one parent stay home to homeschool their kids (at least in my city where a ‘starter home’ costs ~ $550K, and rents are also extremely expensive), I can only think of a few friends/acquaintances that could do this – e.g., Couple #1 (husband equals medical doctor); Couple #2 (husband equals software engineer for big company); Couple #3 (husband equals accountant and high-ranking government official). I believe that with the cost of living (especially in larger centres like Vancouver) spiralling continuously upwards, the ability for families to homeschool their children (with the exception of a privileged few) may soon be a thing of the past (and that is unfortunate).
PS:
If I don’t respond again Kim, please understand that it is simply a time issue for me (i.e., husband annoyed with me for spending too much time on this site – as fun as it has been
Hi Heather,
I think that you have a lot of good points.
Your statement, “potentially producing a poorly-educated citizen who will likely become a burden on society” is I am sure very truthful in one way or another.
Yet, it’s not to criticize the situation because it is perhaps the matter of survival. In an ignorant and self justifying way though….
I personally do not believe in homeschooling, but if it’s necessary, I think it would be a good idea to assign someone, a mentor, from the Big Brother or Sister, or community member, to help the child (and the homeschooler).
Also it appears to me, looking at the current situations in many schools in Canada, including what has been happening in the decision making process at the Burnaby and Vancouver School Boards, the BCHLA’s comment, “The law of British Columbia recognizes the fundamental freedom of parents to choose the education that shall be given to their children” is definitely untrue. Unless it meant just “moving from this to that” school.
But I agree with you that, “creating an inflated sense of entitlement (to RIGHTS, to FREEDOMS, to CHOICES, to BENEFITS, etc.) amongst its citizens” is a big mistake.
But, I think that it is not just a mistake but an unforgivable sin made by the expensively trained and highly paid judges to give the power to the people in the pursuance of their greed through the loopholes within the law, by putting themselves above moral.
I believe that if our forefathers had foreseen the difficult situations we have now when they made the laws and rules, they must have set it differently.
The ultimate mistake Canadians have made is, “letting the morals down.” Giving up from standing guard over it.
Also, the partnership would work great by providing variety of job mentor experiences and strengthen moral lessons through the process. In part this should get rid of the school’s “need” to engage in the vocational concerns, and able to focus on what is really needed in this level of human development.
Thank you Sylvia; I appreciate your support and comments. Also, like you, I am also concerned about the morals and attitudes of our society (in fact, my husband and I haven’t ruled-out leaving Canada at some point in the future; my husband was born in Europe so we do have some options). A couple of the things that bothers me most about Canadians (other than their inflated sense of entitlement) is their general lack of manners, and lack of respect for rules. For example, for every three children I hold the door open for at my children’s school, only one child, on average, will bother to say “thank you”. Also, everyday, I see many parents at my children’s school park in the “Buses Only” lane. I feel like screaming at these people (and to think that these are the very same parents that our BC laws recognize as having “the fundamental freedom to choose the education that shall be given to their children”). Let’s see now, one of the very first things these particular parents would teach their children would be how to break society’s rules.
You are welcome.
And good for you that you have the options over where to live. I don’t have it because I have to leave my children behind. They’ll live or leave when and where they want to …. and most likely they’ll live in Canada. I am stuck here with a mission to make the entire world livable for everybody and them, starting at Burnaby where I live with them now.
And I see that the schools are the most urgent place to bring changes.
In all, back to our problem talks, our society losing moral
is problematic; our sense of entitlement is big one too; the attitude children take against adults and society, thus morals, is problematic as well.
Among all these, while the sense of entitlement our young adults carry, though kind of ok because it is the job for the society to take care of them until they mature, yet it is not ok because there isn’t the system to support it.
The question is: when are we going to think about making it true to hold the post secondary education at no cost? Then the half work is done. And it becomes real.
And the bigger problem our losing moral holds is not, I believe, that children’s bad manners, but the bad manner of Canadian workers.
It seems to me that the attention of most of the workers is at the “time”, break time, lunch time, closing time. Have you noticed it?
I once really stated it to one of my co-workers and said, “I feel that you are one of them.”
I don’t know why she didn’t say anything to that insult…, but when I recall her from my memory sometimes, I regard her as quite a nice person.
However, to tell you the truth, I AM one of the law breakers. Not a lot, but I cannot stand the speed limit near where children are “abundant”. I rarely drive below 40, and when I get stuck behind one who abides the law, for no reason, then I must slow down to 20, 10, I even stop and wait until I see the vehicle gone far enough or not seeing at all. And resume up to 60, depending on how mad I become, especially when I am in a hurry.
But then I have to remember what Socrates had said, “Bad law is law too”, and he gave his life to the bad law….
But I think this speed limit is not just bad but meaningless. Why do I have to slug like that when I see no sign of child(ren) or danger around? Making more pollution-minutes?
I am not joking. We should perform our best to educate our children so that the highest morality of safe behaviour is inculcated to live their lives happily law abiding and to the fullest.
Hard work, not to the feeling of being served and become senseless.
We train our dogs too, and the only difference in the training method between the two groups should be the use of the language.
Let the economy grow and soothe the drivers who are from all over the world by letting the traffic flow more seamlessly.
While we enjoy everything else, including the mighty technology, developing with enormous speed, trying to keep the traffic at the checker every corner, to suit the speed and the strength of our walk doesn’t make sense.
Do I make some sense?
I guess not.
But don’t show this piece to police
I am going to allow this comment but I will ask that we please focus this conversation back to the question: How can schools partner with community members and organizations to create meaningful learning experiences? Why might this be important?
I believe a program or seminar could be developed educating children about the many different types of brain injuries and how to prevent these types of injuries. I believe it could go hand in hand with a bullying type campain.
Any thoughts?
Hi Todd,
I’ve just learned what “unschooling” is.
I think it can hold answers to many problems!
Wanted to jump in here: As an unschooling parent with a popular blog on the subject, I think it’s important to clarify that unschooling is not a cure-all (not that you said it is; I realize). But it’s important to note that unschooling (or life-learning, as many call it) is a lifestyle choice. The same values that we unschoolers hold are also prevalent in the classrooms of really forward-thinking teachers who have the freedom to teach to their students’ needs as opposed to having to teach to a general curriculum or a finacially-motivated goal. I also know many families who are absolutely life-learners, but who, for whatever reasons, choose to participate in the school system. Unschooling is very much about working as individuals, with individuals, and being mindful of what we consume (including education) and what we put out to the world and to our children. In this way unschooling theory (child-led learning, explorative learning, etc.) can indeed help many families and schools to overcome the issues that are brought on by the mistake of trying to teach all children the same things in the same manner. It’s about seeing children as individual human minds, each capable of enormous ingenuity and as the creators of their own futures, instead of as “potential workers” in a world we ourselves have preconceived.
When we strive only to measure up to existing ideas or accomplishments, we can never progress.
Exactly Emily,
As you call it, “the child-led learning, explorative learning, lifelong learning” won’t happen without understanding oneself. The teachers’ first and foremost job is helping their students explore and understand themselves.
This task should be the main work of the primary schooling. Even those we call, “core subject” should be used just to help this main work. I don’t know what other method can do this job, other than having extended dialog…
And then, the learning for the world, and how to live it would follow along through the middle and secondary schooling, before advancing into vocational or whatever that is needed further.
Most of us are “ordinary-uniqe” humans and need a long time to mature.
For those we call, “gifted” or well-to-do students can go ahead with the Advanced Placement Program in both, academic and vocational or even religious endeavour.
You shouldn’t “jump in”
Rather “jump out”
And watch from outside of the BIG picture.
I am very excited in finding the term, UNSCHOOLING.
I am sure that’s what I am looking for so that everybody would understand what I have been struggling to explain about.
I believe that having the teacher-students conversation is much more important than taking the test and marking and grading in pre-post-secondary education.
With this system well set, even those in an unfortunate physical conditions can be helped much more effectively by fellow understanding students rather than by the teachers.
When the stage is set, the only problem would be finding out the way to ensure we will have enough such “selfless” teachers.
This must be the top most assignment for the society, even disregarding the type of school system or life style ….
Thank you Emily for jumping in.
I have asked… but not too many experts are willing to come into a classroom and teach or share with students. And the programs or individuals out there who are willing are looking for $. Also, experts might be passionate about “it”, but often they aren’t always able to reach the kids. “BORING!” or too over their head or not at all appropriate.
I have had no trouble, over the years, contacting knowledgeable, passionate, and friendly people to engage my children and larger groups of children in areas of their expertise. I think the ability to find these people comes with engaging oneself in the larger community, being truly community-minded oneself, and simply being open to work with them, instead of expecting them to confine to a pre-organized lesson. I once made a short video of a local geologist (who also happened to be our mayor) engaging a group of homeschoolers in discussion about a clay (and shell-fossil!) bed on our island. The experience for both children, parents, and teachers at our homeschool support centre was fabulous. Our friendly mayor came out without hesitation, despite an ailing (soon-to-be-replaced) hip, and gave everything he could, just because he cares about his community. Have a watch: http://rickshawunschooling.blogspot.ca/2011/03/learning-nature-ally.html
Big Picture. Org does this already. Students are based on their interests and learning outcomes are place in businesses, unverisities
I almost forgot this one source of great frustration.
As teachers we get from time to time “contests”, but often the contest’s date is ridiculously short-noticed! Most teachers I know have an idea of what units they are going to teach in September. I wish the districts that sometimes approve these contests could tell these companies just that! In other words, send those contest sheets at the end of August or the very beginning of September AND make the contest take place in a few months after that or better in June!
When someone offers to come into your class to work with students on a specific area of expertise…take them up on it. Actively pursue community (and parent) experts to talk and share in your class!
one way to connect with community groups is to run winter programs with the local ski hills. When I was growing up we had just such a program we spent two school weeks in grades 5- 7 learning how to snow shoe, nordic ski, or down hill skiing. There was a cost to parents but it was alot cheaper than normal leasons as the hill had a midweek clientel that the would not have normally been seeing on the slope. Parents who did not have the money to do this could have their children stay at school at participate in Pioneer week. I did this one year and it was great too. All the 5-7 grade kids could choose what they wanted to learn about. We made butter and bread and icecream from scratch. We made apple dolls and learned how to make a log cabin (miniture models). We also made quilt blocks. I am sure there are many old timers in many communities who would love to share their knowlege with the young, these people are getting very very old so this is a resource that is dying fast. First Nations elders could teach much to all children too. There are also many old books with the old ways,our librarian at my school was great with this.
Another program that my child’s class is currently enrolled in is called shoots with roots. It is run by a very good teacher through Vancouver Island University and takes place at Milner Gardens. This is a property that has a food garden a ornamental garden and some old growth forest all on the waterfront. While most communities could not us a place like this the ideas could be used at any school. The children learn about getting lost in the woods and how not to have this happen to them. They also learn about what to do if it does! The plant food crops in the food garden and learn to identify plants using their latin name. There is so much in our natural world that many of this generation does not get at home. Both of these ideas would also in the long run save government lots of money in health care costs as we educate kids to lead more active and healthy lives!
Excellent ideas Natasha!
Also, for all of those parents/schools who do not already know, kids in Grades 4 & 5 qualify for FREE downhill ski lift tickets at virtually every major ski resort in BC (via the Grade 4&5 SnowPass issued online through the Canadian Ski Council). Therefore, if schools were willing to purchase downhill ski equipment for their Grades 4 and 5 students, the schools/parents would only need to pay for the cost of transporting the children to the local ski hill.
These are wonderful ideas and programs. But who pays for them. PARENTS. Then it becomes a program of have and have not as some parents can’t afford these extra curricular acticities
Here’s a thought. Rather than have private/independent/specialty schools competing with public schools like we current have, why don’t we allow for BOTH, without the win-lose competitive factor?
For example, require all students to attend public school in BC, and for those parents who want, and can afford, more for their children, they can enroll their children in private/independent/specialty schools that are scheduled outside of public school hours (before school? after school? weekends?).
I think this would allow for the rejuvenation, development and maintenance of the best public school system for our society, while simultaneously allowing individual families the opportunity to supplement their children’s public school education with private education (ie religious studies, university prep schools, sports academies, etc).
This seems like a win-win scenario to me (certainly better than the win-lose competition we currently have between public schools, religious schools, prep schools, etc).
Having attended a religious school in my elementary years, I would say that the point of such a private school is not necessarily related to curriculum content as much as it is related to the overall context of the learning environment. Christian values and history and culture and tradition extend waaay beyond the part of the day set aside for studying religion…they are a part of recess, lunch, library, walking down the hallway, how teachers are treated, etc. etc. In that school, every part of the day had to do with God.
Also, much of it is also related to what the children there do not have to be subjected to: restrictions of religious/spiritual expression and peer-related discouragement thereof; over-stimulation (the private school I went to was ‘dull’ looking by most standards, but having fewer distractions and colours and posters and books and decorations, it helped us to focus better); dealing with children who were dropped off at school as though it was a free babysitting service; etc. etc.
If anything, it’d probably be more rejuvenating to adapt the public system so that it more closely resembled the private system than to do it the other way around. Of course, we couldn’t make people all have to pay either…but dissolution of the private school system would be a big mistake.
Rob states:
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“Having attended a religious school in my elementary years, I would say that the point of such a private school is not necessarily related to curriculum content as much as it is related to the overall context of the learning environment. Christian values and history and culture and tradition extend waaay beyond the part of the day set aside for studying religion … in that school, every part of the day had to do with God …. If anything, it’d probably be more rejuvenating to adapt the public system so that it more closely resembled the private system than to do it the other way around.”
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Rob, I have always felt that as a society, ‘church and state’ should be clearly separated which I believe the public school system is trying to do by adopting a secular approach.
I see education being a state role (mainly because I see the education of our children as being absolutely critical and unrivalled in terms of supporting Canada’s future competitiveness and success; and, the single most powerful unifying force we have remaining as a Nation – given that religous freedom is both permitted and encouraged in Canada). [Note: I seem to recall that the Roman empire (I think it was the Roman empire), as it continued to conquer and expand, had to come-up with a 'unifying force' to better unify its hugely diversified new collection of citizens; and, given the times and lack of political correctness, was able to choose and utilize religion (Christianity) for this convenient and politically-motivated purpose].
Another interesting point – I was watching a commentary on TV this morning and I heard the host of the programme explain that the main purpose behind dividing ‘church from state’ was to in fact ‘save the church’ from the state, rather than the other way around (which is what many people falsely believe). Assuming this is correct, it makes perfect sense that the public school system stay out of the ‘religion/spirituality business’, leaving this to parents and churches outside of regular school hours.
Heather, I do believe that government should not adopt a religion of its own…however, separation of church and state is a harmful concept because it has no clear limitations. Such separations actually edge OUT religion…to the point of being anti-religious…fearful of religion.
…it’s better to set a clearly defined threshold (eg. The government will not adopt a religion for itself) than to maintain a position that religion and government should be separate in all ways (You may find it interesting that the United Church of Canada was actually established according to a parliamentary act).
…in any case, a successful secular approach requires an extremely deep and integrity-based philosophy…(something like a Montessori approach)…because the pervasive philosophies of political correctness and moral relativism are actually more dangerous to society than any potential religious values.
Thanks Rob; and just when I thought I had the world all figured-out, you go and give me more to think about – sigh
.
But, that’s what makes this discussion on education so great; the fact that so many people, from so many diverse backgrounds, have chosen to participate in this conversation for the common purpose of giving our children the very best education possible.
I like Richard’s idea very much. The way I see things, if Canada wants to be a truly multi-cultural, multi-ethnic and tolerant society, then what better opportunity do we as a country have to build this type of society, then by requiring that ALL (where possible) Canadian children be educated together. The public school system can serve as the perfect funnel for teaching Canadians, starting with our children, tolerance and inclusive values.
2 concerns:
1) Why is tolerance so critical? In my mind it winds up having an opposite effect, but equally negative. Teaching tolerance lends itself to creating passive, conflict-fearing children.
Perhaps what you mean by ‘tolerance’ is really more like ‘acceptance’, where one can be at peace with the fact that there are bad things in the world, but still be able to respond appropriately to them. Basically, being accepting is being well adjusted to the actual conditions of life and the world.
2) I find it confusing to suggest that eliminating the private schools, and mixing those kids with the public system is somehow more pro-multicultural, pro-tolerance, and reflective of inclusive values. Is it not more inclusive to welcome a variety of approaches to education? A Catholic approach? A Montessori approach? A homeschooled approach? A public approach?
…how is it multicultural to want to homogenize education?
…most schools are actually quite void of any traditional culture because of the minimal influence of any established cultures being prevalent there. There are not exactly any number of public schools where Catholic culture is openly on display, or where Sikh culture is openly on display, or where any other prominent culture is openly on display. At most we may observe someone praying before they eat, or we may see someone wearing a sari…but these are only the superficial appearances of culture…not the culture itself. Real culture is not just what we see, but what we experience as a community.
…historically speaking, the First Nations of our province often claim to have lost much of their culture due to the residential schools…
Being First Nations at a Residential School didn’t make it multicultural…just as when I went to a public high school, the fact that I was a Catholic didn’t make it more multicultural either…there was nothing about my high school that was Catholic.
…having experienced an elementary private school, my view is that the spiritual context of learning is simply not possible as such in the public system. It is not possible to create an adequate secular approximation either, because the public system is really more non-cultural than it is multicultural…
Having people from different cultures in the same room is not multiculturalism. Multiculturalism requires interaction in the context of culture.
The message I was trying to convey (poor wording on my part) is that I think mixing people (e.g., boys with females, muslims with christians, the poor with the rich, white people with black/asian people, etc.) from the time we are small children is what may be required for all Canadians (being that we are trying to establish a multi-cultural/ethnic society) to live in harmony with a shared and unifying sense of core Canadian values (e.g., the value that women are equal to men, that black people are equal to white people, that people can be of a different faith or ethnic background without being evil/scary, that the ‘class-system’ has no place in Canadian society). A couple of examples:
Example #1
As a child living in a small town, I recall being terrified when I learned that a German family had purchased the house up the street from us (I thank TV for this). Anyhow, I went to school only to find that the middle child from this German family was in my class. I soon got to know this little girl and was pleasantly surprised to discover that she was a really nice girl. She soon invited me home to her house so that I could meet her parents (again, I was a little scared). Anyhow, her parents were so nice, and I recall them offering me cookies and chocolates, etc. I learned a huge lesson through this experience (that people are people, and that we do not need to live in fear of each other). However, had these children been sent to a private German school (if such a thing exists), I may have been cheated of this experience and continued to have lived in fear of the German family up the street.
Example #2
My family was poor (I lived in a broken home); however, I became friends with a litle girl at my public school who was from a relatively wealthy family. I loved going to this little girl’s house, as I so admired her beautiful home (sunken livingroom, inground swimming pool, etc). I was also impressed by the holidays (e.g., DisneyWorld, skiing in Colorado, etc.) that her family enjoyed. I approached my mother one day demanding to know why we didn’t have these nice things. My mother, being the smart woman she is, replied: “Well, you can have these things too one day, if you stay in school and get a good education.” Based largely on this conversation (and my desire to have the lifestyle and things my friend’s family had), I decided to work extra hard in school and I went-on to place 2nd on my highschool honour roll. I later became accepted into the University of Toronto (Commerce and Economics) and eventually became an accountant; not bad for a little girl from a broken home. The point is, had this wealthy family sent their kids to a private school for rich kids, I likely wouldn’t have met my little friend Ashley and gotten the opportunity to see what kind of a lifestyle a good education could lead me to.
I went to a private elementary school…and we had wealthy families and poor families both sending their kids there…there was a point when my parents separated, and finances were incredibly tight…with 5 children, it wasn’t because they could afford it that my parents sent us to a private school.
Private schools aren’t only for the rich…there are ways to have payments subsidized too.
…Private schools exist as a response to the poor standards of the public system…
…the lessons that you learned in your experience at the public school are available at pretty much every school…and in addition to that, pretty much all life experiences with people besides one’s family is an opportunity to see and learn and appreciate the differences between ourselves and others.
Thanks Rob; I always enjoy reading and learning from your comments. In terms of your comment: “Private schools exist as a response to the poor standards of the public system …” would you mind explaining what you mean by this (i.e., in what ways are public school standards poor, particularly in comparison to the standards of private and/or independent schools?).
Also, how would most parents (those of us with no formal background in the area of education, including education policy and best/evidence-based practices – like myself) be in a proper and educated position to evaluate whether our neighbourhood public school follows good standards in delivering educational services to children? I would be in no better position to evaluate the performance and standards of my neighbourhood public school and its teachers (or a competing private school), than I would be to judge the quality of the professional services provided by my childrens’ pediatric dentist. The only tool I know of which can provide me a valid approximation of the performance of my childrens’ school is the Fraser Institute (FI) Report. Now, I understand that many teachers vehemently oppose this report and its scoring and ranking of schools; however, if one takes the time to read the Overview/Executive Summary of the report, one will discover that this assessment tool does, reportedly, ‘adjust’ school scores/rankings to account for any advantages/disadvantages created for the schools due to the socio-economic status of the attending students and families, etc.
The standards of the public system are secular and political in nature for starters. Regulations concerning class sizes and other things are handled on a political rather than a practical level…(politically it has to do with numbers of students/money; practically it’s really about whether the 30 kids are all on the same page, or if it’s 16 kids all at different levels…)
…in the public system, failure is a taboo…often to the point where the ambition for success is set aside in favour of simply avoiding failure. Have you noticed the frequent need for IEPs? These sorts of curriculum alterations generally adjust requirements in order to minimize failure (and maybe boost self-esteem or something?).
In all these areas, the private sector does far better than the public. The public system tries to be all things to all people, while the private system aims to serve a more organized, and defined interest.
…the private system tends to address the whole child in a more effective way too…private schools exist to meet the general provincial curriculum’s needs, and MORE. They exist to instill values, principles, ethics, and traditions that are essentially just superficially promoted in the public system in accord with political correctness.
…as for your how to educate oneself on good educational opportunities for our children…that’s a great question…will require some further thought on my part.
Thanks so much Rob for your comment (to my comment) below. I am thanking you here, because the ‘REPLY’ button located under your last comment has been ‘disabled’ – perhaps that means the moderator wants to put a close to this particular discussion?
Anyhow, I really appreciate your response and comments Rob, and I just wanted to let you know that I most definitely agree with your comment about how political agendas/correctness negatively affect the public school system. For example, I am disgusted that in my School District (SD #63), students who are not even ‘Meeting Expectations’ in reading and writing in basic English, are being shamefully shuttled-off (four out of five school days a week, from Kindergarten onwards) to French language classes. You know, it’s so comforting to know that some of these kids who are failing so miserably in school, and whom may one day find themselves unemployed and drug-addicted and living in the Downtown Eastside, will at least be able to say ‘thankyou’ to their local drug dealer in both English and French …
We will look into the issue with the “reply” button. As Moderators we are not here to shut conversations down, nor do we have the ability to turn the “reply” buttons on and off. We are here to monitor the conversations to ensure that they do stay on topic and respecful and meet our “Moderation Policy”.
Hi Everyone,
This issue is a result of the current platform on which we are running our website. Each reply is indented. Eventually, this indentation results in a thread so thin, the “Reply” button greys out & no longer functions.
As a short term workaround, I recommend replying on the final comment thread that retains a “Reply” button =)
Budgetary changes in our education system over the years and the negative economic outlook, combined with some calls for a voucher system from the right wing (which would further erode the public school system) led me to raise this idea.
I was simply thinking that if the public and private school systems could work together on aspects of education that they share in common then we could more efficiently achieve our common objectives.
Instead of different school systems competing over students with a “winner take all” attitude, I was simply thinking that, for economic and efficiency reasons, we might ALL benefit if the educational aspects common to ALL students were taught in public schools.
Pitting private schools against public schools during hard times seems to be counterproductive when both systems clearly have plenty in common and we may no longer, collectively, be able to afford such redundancy.
So let’s be creative. How might we address Rob Slanina’s (and many others’) legitimate concerns about this developing idea, while not eroding our public education system as the private school system is currently doing?
Could you clarify what you mean when you say the private system is eroding the public system?
I’m in a bit of a hurry at the moment but here are a few related points to consider, criticize and discuss:
1. When a student leaves the public school system, that reduces the budget for the public school system by 1 FTE, and it reduces efficiencies of scale in the public school system.
2. One less family in the public school system is one less family actively participating in, contributing to, and improving our public education system. It’s one less family fundraising and advocating for our public school system. The public education community is reduced and is poorer for it. And if synergy is being greater than the sum of our parts, then perhaps the loss of each student and family from our public education community is more damaging than simply their absence.
3. If the private school system is effectively skimming the most financially privileged students, the highest academic achievers, etc, from the public school system, then the public school system is effectively deprived of those students and their families. Each time that happens it amplifies the disparity between the two systems, and is a viscous circle to the detriment of the public education system and society at large.
How else does the private education system erode the public education system?
And conversely, how does the private education system benefit the public education system?
The public system cannot be everything to everyone. To say that a student going to a private school is a loss to the public system implies that the public system had something to gain from them in the first place…as though an orange tree could miss out for not also having apples growing on it.
…and really, it is a case of apples and oranges. Private schools exist to provide education in an entirely different context than the public system…
…would you say that every university student that goes into the sciences is a loss to the programs that focus on the arts? Hardly. The two things serve completely different purposes. So what if the arts would get more money if more people were interested…it doesn’t mean that the existence of sciences ERODES the arts…the arts must be measured on their own merits…not by what the sciences have ‘taken away’ from them.
What you’ve done is you’ve taken a position THEN constructed an argument to support it. Without the position that private schools erode the public system, it is easy to recognize that the public system is not ‘for profit’, meaning that more students is actually an EXPENSE rather than an asset…
…you’ve framed it the other way around though by implying that fewer students means less funding…
Fewer students actually means less NEED for funding.
…also, concerning the ‘skimming’ of academic achievers…I question the validity of that statement and propose that the private system actually empowers students better to BE academic achievers. It’s not often the case that the brightest in the public system are necessarily hopping over to the private schools.
Parents tend to keep children in environments where they are being successful…
There seems to be a lot of imagined conflict between the two systems which does not really warrant the hype.
Rob Slanina stated, “The public system cannot be everything to everyone”.
I agree. And since the public education system has more in common with the competing private education system than not, I would expect that the public education system could meet most of the needs of most private school students. After all, both public and private schools satisfy the same provincial curriculum.
Rob Slanina stated, “a student going to a private school is a loss to the public system implies that the public system had something to gain from them in the first place…as though an orange tree could miss out for not also having apples growing on it”.
I agree with the first half of that statement, but not the analogy in the second half. I understand, for example, that the context in which a student may learn to read in a faith-based private school is different than the context in which a student may learn the same provincial curriculum in our public schools. I just think that the public and private school systems share many, if not most, objectives in common, and benefits might be realized by ALL if we worked together to achieve common objectives.
Using university art and science students as an analogy for the private and public school systems is too much of a stretch for me right now. And I do not agree that the K-12 public and private school systems “serve completely different purposes” if that is what you meant. In fact, I think both systems have more in common than not, and we might all benefit more from working together than from working in isolation from each other.
Regarding your objection to my comment about the public school system losing 1 FTE of revenue for every student who leaves the public school system, please notice that statement is true, and less complicated than trying to make a similar statement regarding the impact on the expense of a student leaving. One less student in a school does not often result in simply one less expense to the school. For example, when one student leaves a class of 20 students, the school district must still provide the same classroom, the same teacher, etc, so the cost would remain about the same, and yet the revenue for that school district would be reduced by 1 FTE. And sometimes one less student might cause administration to “reconfigure” the school such that there is one less teacher than there otherwise would have been, which results in more students per classroom, split-grade classes, etc. When private schools compete with public schools for students there ARE negative impacts.
I am less clear on how significant those negative impacts are at this point. Anybody know the number of students attending private schools in BC?
Whatever that number may currently be, if this government intends to effectively promote more students to leave the public school system via a voucher system or similarly divisive strategy then I think we will all lose.
Let’s work together to make our public education system even better and all reap the benefits.
You have repeated the idea that the public system has a lot in common with the private system.
If you don’t mind, I would like to use an analogy from mathematics:
Suppose public schools are like the set of even numbers(2, 4, 6, 8, …) while the private schools are like the set of positive integers (1, 2, 3, 4, …).
It is easy to see that both sets have a lot in common…in fact, they have almost every aspect of the even set in common! But so what? the set of integers has much more to it than those things it has in common with the other set.
…basically, it doesn’t matter how much the public system has in common with the private system unless it is prepared to adopt some seriously integrous philosophy and/or spirituality.
That thing that the two systems do not have in common is actually one of the most significant factors in education…and a secular, politically correct approach simply cannot provide it.
…and still, I would like to understand further why you contextualize students in the public system as financial assets…I mean, they cost taxpayers twice as much as their Group 1 private school counterparts. Most private schools operate at an expense per student that is less than in the public system while providing a better service.
Imagine if the government gave equal funding to both schools…now THAT would be something…because most private schools would be able to waive their tuition fees entirely!
It seems as though having to pay tuition is the number one factor that prevents parents from sending their children to these more efficient, more successful schools…
Thanks for your thoughtful comments, Rob.
This is a complicated topic that involves many related issues: Charter rights, the public interest, separation of church and state, etc.
I just hope that this government is not intending to introduce a voucher system or otherwise weaken our public education system.
Together we are better than in isolation.
What would be bad about a voucher system? Could it be remedied by implementing certain regulations on a voucher system so as to ensure that it is implemented with integrity?
Also, to what extent does separation of church and state play a part in this? Religious people are subject to governmental laws, so there cannot be complete separation. I believe that separation of church and state is only reasonable under the provisions that the government shall not adopt a particular religion for itself, and that religious freedom must be championed by the government.
Given these provisions, it is not problematic for government to provide funding to religious schools, because the schools serve the same purpose as the public school, and the rest is simply the FREE practice of religion which should not be inhibited by government.
Separation of church and state is a meme that is heralded by secular interests in order to promote the idea that churches and states in some way must have differing interests…it is a movement intent upon edging out religion, based on an out-of-context interpretation of some writings of Thomas Jefferson concerning the First Amendment of the US Constitution.
We may be better together than in isolation, however, we are not better together if we fail to avail our differences in service of the greater good.
Union for the sake of homogeneity is redundant.
Here are a couple of recent articles related to this topic that you might be interested in reading:
1. B.C.’s two-tiered teaching tiff [Business Vancouver]
2. Victoria Councillor Isitt right to question Glenlyon tax status [Victoria News]
You might be interested in a related thread here that includes some data provided by one of the moderators.
Hi…….saw Sal Khan on 60 minutes talking about Khan Academy.
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Encorporate community libraries. Adult Education. Public Health. Our fleets of school busses sit 16 hrs a day. There is collosal waste of resources in school districts. Lets regionalize like health care and get rid of waste.
Our schools primarily sit empty 16 hr a day. What a waste. Encorporate community libraries. Adult Education. Public Health. Our fleets of school busses sit 16 hrs a day. There is collosal waste of resources in school districts. Lets regionalize like health care and get rid of waste.
When I was growing up (I am now 48 years) my Mum volunteered at our school for reading. My children are in private school and parents are expected to volunteer. We want to volunteer. The Union has stopped parents volunteering in public schools and in a time of budget constrants is this wise??
I totally agree! My offers to volunteer have generally been met with mistrust, skepticism or diffidence. There was one fabulous exception: one fantastic teacher who welcomed parents into her class and created a supportive and caring community amongst all of us families. She was also able to create significant turn-arounds for some “marginal” students with these resources. She took all the resources available to her (people and time) and used them. She was the best teacher in my children’s several years of public school (so far!). She didn’t see “net zero”. she saw opportunities in everything she had at her disposal.
I think that there are so many opportunities that are not explored such as volunteer co-op positions with businesses, non profits, community and a variety of government organizations that can provide relative experience and a snap shot of the diversity of employment opportunities.
I would love to see our highschools partner with the military and community service sector as part of a mandatory programme that would require all BC youth to serve two years in the military or in the community/social service sector.
As the Literacy Outreach Coordinator for Abbotsford I am witnessing first hand how partnering with community members can bring together many strengths and resources to make a dream a reality.
An example of partnering with the Abbotsford School District and the Abbotsford community is the work being done to create an Aboriginal library space. This space is housed within the Community Aboriginal Centre, a school district site. The supervisor of the library will by funded through the Abbotsford School District. Literacy Matters Abbotsford has used some of the implementation funding toward renovations, painting a mural, and providing resources. Success by Six is contributing monies toward the library and programs that will be run from this space. A staff memeber from the Fraser Valley Regional Library, has accessed two Library Technical Practicum Students from University of the Fraser Valley. The students have been vital in determining a cataloguing system, cataloguing the current resources, and making recommendation for future resources.
The vision and mission statement for the library space attests to why this project is important:
Vision statement: By providing an inviting and culturally rich environment the literacy levels and graduation rates are increased within the Abbotsford Aboriginal community
Mission statement: to serve the community of Abbotsford by providing recreational and educational resources that reflect Aboriginal culture and interests, and by providing an inclusive space for gathering and learning
It is the hope and dream of all members involved in this project that working in partnership with the Abbotsford community will see the vision and mission statement realized.
If the school district were not a partner within this project, the reality of creating an Aboriginal library space would be much more challenging. As a respected structure in the community, school district involvement gives this project a physical space, a person to supervise, and a framework to support such a space.
Creating an Aboriginal library at the Community Aboriginal Centre speaks to how schools can partner with community members and organizations as well as why this is important.
Schools cannot partner with community members to accomplish much due to the top down nature of how the education system works. I was recently curious about how a clearly biased source might be disallowed or at least balanced in the social studies program. What I found was that curriculum decisions are monopolised by folks that are likely very good at teaching but not necessarily competent at determining what the right things to teach are. I quote Nancy Walt, Director Curriculum & Assessment:
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“Potential curriculum team members are recommended by their particular professional associations: e.g. British Columbia Teachers’ Federation, BC Principals’ and Vice Principals’ Association, First Nations Education Steering Committee, etc. The Ministry’s appointments to the provincial curriculum development team are based on those recommendations.”
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Note that without being a teacher it appears impossible to be in a position to modify what is taught to our children. Things taught at school shape much of what we become so this comittee is in a powerful position to dictate what our province’s citizens believe. To engage community members I propose that B.C. citizens be able to submit detailed changes to subject material with some mechanism (perhaps online referendum) used to confirm these changes. The results of such referendum need to be binding in the classroom.
The process you’re speaking of is in the past. We’re now working on redefining curriculum and assessment based on personalized learning within the context of BC’s Education Plan. Ministry staff have been, and continue to, work with educators to do this work. Progress on this work will be highlighted shortly on the Action pages of our site.
Mike:
This sounds like potentially good news. Hopefully very soon there will be some questions in this space on precisely this topic. I might phrase this question: “By what process will curriculum be formed and modified? Should the public have a direct role in its shaping?”
A distinct but related question dear to my heart would be. “How will it be decided what sort of economic, social and religious activism are to be: required/encouraged/discouraged/banned
in the classroom?”
Public libraries are a natural partner for public schools. In our small community, the elementary school, which once had a well resourced library staffed by a full time teacher librarian who provided direct curriculum support to classroom teachers, no longer exists. The high school library is severely under resourced and out of date. The public library is growing and well supported by the community, even though it is poorly funded. Yet most teachers do not seem to encourage their students to use the public library or go out of their way to establish this important connection. Contrary to some of the opinions expressed here, it is my experience that most public librarians do not have an agenda other than helping people of all ages access the information they want and need. The library is the one place in our community where anyone can access the internet without charge, and of course, the educational implications of this are obvious. Talk about freedom of information and lifelong learning in a supportive environment!
By inviting community members into the classrooms to teach skills, tell stories and share experiences. More field trips and trips to job sites.
Strongly, meaningfully, encourage community participation in the schools, VIA volunteering. Partnering with our senior citizens, a valuable resource that we in the schools do not make use of. Imagine having guest speakers for subjects such as history? Senior readers, retired ships captains, you name it, there are resorces out there that can help bring a “living moment” to the classrooms. Exend Career Week throughtout the school year, so that groups, individuals can be presenting to students throughout the year.
Looking at ways and means to partner with other Provincial agencies, such as, MCFD, Health, etc. to take active roles in school programs. Looking at ways of shating startegies and interventions especially in the areas of youth health and “at-risk youth”
I don’t see how 21st-Century Learning will possibly occur under 19th-Century labour relations. Without a mutually respectful and cooperative relationship with the teachers of B.C. and an improved funding formula, education in this province is doomed to follow the mistakes of the United States and the United Kingdom. A wider perspective of the role of education in society is needed – I don’t see that happening with the BCEd Plan, I’m sorry to say. And the government’s treatment of educators and disregard for the courts are the major hurdles to educational progress.
Our teachers do not seem to consider the percent of the economy that their field consumes as being of interest to them. Instead of this big picture they seem to be most concerned about preserving a priviledged position for themselves obtained in contracts a generation ago when both the economy and will of the people (reflected by the elected government) were different. My wider perspective of formal education in society is that it is far too intrusive into the lives of citizens already. The concept of schools trying to force our society in a particular direction was used very successfully in places like Nazi Germany. It is important to reverse the educational system’s direction and refocus it on literacy, numeracy and job prep.
If the BC Government wants to create a meaningful learning experience for students they should make better use of the resources that are available: Teachers!! Its the teachers who I see giving up their daily wage to protect my nieces and nephews from bloated class sizes, and to fight for teacher assistants who help with special needs children, so that teachers are able to give more attention to other children in the classroom. If the BC government has enough money to post hate ads against the BCTF on radio & tv stations, and advertise for this plan for ‘the future’ (despite their history of cutting educational costs & closing schools) I believe they certainly have enough money to come to the table with more then $0.00 so that they can do something about this problem NOW.
You might be interested in related discussion here and here.
I totally agree with the above. I’m VERY suspicious of any government that spends thousands on ads instead of actually dealing with the root of the problem. Seems like they are only interested in convincing the public that teachers are greedy and in it for the money (anyone who actually knows a teacher knows this is completely false). Christy Clarke somehow thinks she can “buy off” teachers, offering them extra money to overstuff the classrooms and actually pay “per head” for extra students. Children are not commodities. You can’t bribe teachers to accept a system that does not function in the best interests of the students.
Part of every secondary student’s education should be 10-15 days per year of unpaid work experince to get them used to the idea of hard work. Planting , brushing, spacing + nursery work might be useful for forestry. Hand harvesting fruits + vegetables might be useful for farmers. Power washing heavy duty equipment might be useful for mines and oil+gas plants. Any money earned could help pay for their school’s budgets. It might also make students more activist about waste of time and resources in their schools.
As a concerned parent, while fully endorsing this concept as productive and interesting, I have a few reservations… the primary one being the simply American idea of unpaid internships… surely when provided cheap grunt labour, a token wage to help instil the value of an hours work would be beneficial for the developing mind? Piece work always appealed to me as a fine productivity enhancer, i’d imagine with proper motivation, competitions would be in place to encourage such efforts… Surely the provincial government could offer a tax break to companies that involve the virgin workforce for an extremely temporary term. My son is incredibly competitive with his online games, and at his part time job he always attempts to excel (or so i hear from his senior management) an essential work term as bruce suggests might be exactly the thing he needs to help him determine his career.
In our large local elementary school in George Abbott’s hometown of Sicamous we have the library open only one day a week and it is staffed by an extremist that reads the children objectionable political material rather than giving them free access to browse.
I was shocked to find out that my kindergarten, grade 3, and grade seven children were all recently read a sinister story about a boy dressing like a princess in their library time. The lady tested the children about their knowledge of this clear propaganda piece and those that conformed to her vision got bribed with candy.
Perhaps management and staffing of libraries should be taken from the unions until their members can be trusted to stop promoting extremist causes. Community volunteers would be more than willing to completely run the place for 3-5 days a week.
Sounds like the teacher working in the library shared a book that doesn’t align with your values. Hopefully, he or she also shares many books that cover a broad range of views on controversial topics, and encourages kids to think about how their family values compare with the story.
I suspect this particular title might have been shared in the context of anti-bullying day? The plot certainly sounds like it would facilitate a discussion of how differences in behaviours or values do not justify bullying. If that was the intent behind sharing the book with the school, I don’t think it quite qualifies as sinister progaganda. The “respect others, don’t bully” message is quite different than the “it’s ok to dress like a princess if you’re a boy” message (though for the record, what’s wrong with that?)
lorelei:
There seems to be a parade of animal rights extremism, environmental/population control extremism and feminist/Gay+Lesbian propaganda hitting both the library and the classroom this year. Amongst my peers of university educated professionals that can afford options I am amongst the few left that has not elected to use homeschooling or private academies. Limitation of allowed ideas in the schools to those that shape a society in a way some unelected planners want it to progress is likely the reason. Perhaps it is time for a more open and public process for exactly what is to be assigned/read/studied by our children with teachers and the ministry reflecting the public’s priorities not attempting to set them!
I think I understand that your views on the topics you identify above (animal rights etc.) are quite different than the opinions that are being expressed in the classroom. I understand how it is worrying to think that your child is bring exposed to information that does not align with your family’s values.
However, I’m pretty sure that, at the end of the day, your family’s values will shape your child far more than the views of his or her teacher in school.
I think that it’s a good thing for kids to be exposed to opinions and ideas that are different from what they get at home. When a child observes a difference between the school’s curriculum and their family’s values, I think that gives them some crucial tools that help them think critically about the information they receive from all kinds of places: TV and media, other people, etc.
At some point, our children are going to end up in the world without us to filter the information that they receive. I want my kids to gain experience in thinking for themselves as early as possible: if they come home with an idea that I disagree with, I think it’s really valuable to have a conversation about that, and to explore why I hold a particular view or belief.
Yes, there is a chance that they might reject a family value or view when offered an alternate way of thought: but this is unlikely, and in any case, I think a view or belief is really only valuable when understand why you believe it.
So maybe it’s possible to look at the school curriculum as an opportunity for discussion and critical thinking practice, rather than a wholly bad thing?
Although, I say again, I hope that any decent librarian and teacher is exposing kids to a wide variety of viewpoints, including some that *do* align with what your family values. I’m sure that for some families, the beliefs that your family accepts would be just as challenging as the feminist/Gay+Lesbian content that you disagree with.
Lorelei:
That was a well thought out response:) If the views of my family towards animals (we trap), towards the environment (I’m scientist that sometimes works in heavy industry) and how the the human family is ordered (we are non-atheist) were presented with the level of advocacy that opposing views are presented I would not be complaining here. If the system were only anti-industry, anti-hunting/trapping or anti-traditional family it wouldn’t be so complex to deal with but having the school ‘wrong’ about everything I perceive as important is a little much. I perceive that our family’s positions align with those being targeted for anhialation over the next generation in the same way racism has been actively eliminated. This hostile environment at school has forced many locals from capable agricultural, engineering and religious families to push back by moving to homeschooling. Note that I have one governor general’s award winning grad so far and one runner up. My other four are also quite capable so it is possible that over the issue of in-class social activism by teachers Sicamous public schools will literally lose the audience of 1% of its student body. I guess since everyone hates the 1% these days its an OK thing to do.
Well, I’d be sorry to lose your family’s viewpoint from the public system. That would be a loss.
I think the more diverse opinions and ideas kids are exposed to, the better off they are: they’ll know that other people may hold different views, and that those views will often hold merit, and should be considered. I hate to think the school system’s prevailing moral views are edging out families who don’t agree, and superceding the value of critical thinking and diversity.
Best of luck to your family in navigating the system. Sounds like your kids are doing just fine.
I know what Bruce is talking about as my kids’ school has a teacher who is incredibly environmentally conscience (did I spell that right?), and bless her heart for this; however, one day, my litle daughter (Grade 1) came home and told me that her teacher said that people who drive SUVs (I drive an SUV) are evil for polluting the environment. I was so angry! It wasn’t fun trying to explain to my 6-year-old daughter that mommy wasn’t really evil … that mommy drove an SUV because she was afraid to drive a small vehicle (following a near-fatal car crash that occurred a few years back when I drove a small Toyota Tercel).
It was also nice (same year) to be invited to my daughter’s classroom to read a book to her class, only to be told by her teacher that the book I had brought to read to the children was ‘innapropriate’ … it was titled: “Mortimer The Christmas Mouse” … an adorable book about a little mouse who moves into the family’s Christmas manger, later deciding to vacate in order to give Baby Jesus back his bed, but is then delighted to discover the family’s edible gingerbread house which he claims as his new home. Now, I understand that public schools are suppose to be ‘secular’; however, what possible harm could my reading of this adorable little story have caused the children?
While I agree with much of what Lorelei has to say, I also believe that Bruce makes some very valid points …
As a parent with 6 children in the Royal Conservatory of music program, I am convinced that the music education quality in BC schools is really quite embarassing. It is not sufficient that their courses be acknowledged. The music education needs to brought up many notches in quality or scrapped as a waste of time.
This gives a student a hands on feel for the job area they are interested in. Maybe some will change their mind as to where they were planning to go, and head off in another direction. This is the time to do it.
the largest growing group in our society is retiring baby boomers… these people have many skills… many of these individuals do not have enough money to leave for warmer climates during the winter, and they could be enrolled into volunteering at their local schools… bankers… mortgage brokers… engineers… gardeners… mechanics.. politicians… accountants… interior decorators… etc…
There could be a mandatory school period that is taught by a rotating group of retirees… this would be beneficial to kids on many levels…
I agree Debbie. There must be a way we can set up a system where these expert volunteers “get something in return”. For example, without exchanging $, such as a highschool student comes and cuts their grass or shovels their snow. (perhaps they can accumulate “credits” and have these services delivered when they are over 70 years old…like a free insurance plan…)
This 14 minute Tedx video is worth a look. It is about Stephen Ritz, a teacher in the tough South Bronx, moving students from “crack to cucumbers”, improving student attendance to 93% and creating thousands of youth jobs aligned with learning. He merges the real world with the world of schooling. This is 21st century teaching and learning. This is hope about tackling the problems of our time: the environment, social equity and justice, and jobs that produce valued goods and services by young people. It is about community partnerships and making a contribution to create meaningful learning experiences. Other creative ideas to integrate students into the community doing other worthwhile things are just as viable – you don’t have to replicate urban gardens; just the idea of merging real world & school.
http://www.tedxmanhattan.org/2012talks
Just watched the INSULTING ad promoting this site. As the Professional Development chair for my school, I am deeply incensed by the remarks made in this ad.
I am not sure if we saw the same TV ad, but you might be interested in this thread with related comments and links.
A related comment, with a suggestion on how we might avoid this kind of problem in the future, can be found here.
The main reason bringing others into schools would be important is that they would learn what schools are really like from the inside, not just from the perspective of having attended it.
The first place I’d bring people into the schools is to attend to the numerous extra-curricular activities that teachers are less and less able or willing to do because of the pressures of the jobs. I’d use the expertise of anyone in any area who could pass knowledge along to students at the appropriate time in the curriculum. One of the things I’d like to see is people actually becoming familiar with the learning OUTCOMES not just the content.
The comments regarding combining public and school libraries interests me. I do not know how public libraries would cope with the very specific subject demands of schools. When a school with 200 grade 8s hits the Renaissance in social studies, the number of resources available (and at an appropriate grade level) is very speiclaized. I think library patrons might find the demands of a school library too narrow for them.
Guest speakers, mentoring, work experience, co-op. Most of the comments here seem to be focused on libraries, critically important to the post secondary and elementary education less so to trades and blue collar. I recall in grades 11 and 12 being taken out of the class room to do directed studies at the local college. It placed me in the collegiate envirnment and fostered the skill set for research. Just as valuable however would be a mentoring program where partners in the community actually took students and trained them in what they do.
I am not talking of work experience where students go and push a broom for a week or two, but actually openening a dialogue with local businesses where students are placed with a specific person that trains the student.
Also guest speakers that talk specifically about a topic, a gene therapist that could come in during Biology 12 and give a lecture that ties into the curriculum and then having a Q@A about their job…
Perhaps even having professionals such as that on the substitute list so that students will benefit from continued classroom time at the hands of a professional in the field of study.
ie framers or architects that could come in and teach shop classes or Software programmers that could come and teach and explain what a crunch time is….
…this all sounds great, but it’s really unrealistic. In my experience working as a carpenter’s apprentice, it took a long while for me to learn a lot of important information. A guest lecturer isn’t going to come in and magically make the students more capable of pursuing a career in ________ after just a few lectures.
…and even if they could prepare the students ahead of time, its not as though the Canadian Carpenters are going to do away with their apprenticeship program…
…the best carpenters I have met are the ones that know how to think best…the ones who really understand the math. There are lots of terrible carpenters that just want to jump in and try something…they go through the most material and make the most mistakes and they make the least profits for their employers.
If we prepare children to think well, they will be able to do anything (thinking is transferable to any career….framing buildings is not). The basics of math, English and science, held to high standards, is what kids need in order to be equipped for success.
Learning occurs in many places, including in libraries, school libraries, public libraries, post-secondary libraries. Schools, teachers and students can partner with public libraries and other libraries to learn about all kinds of resources that are available to them for study, learning new hobbies/skills, broadening their horizons.
Thank you.
Anything that engages children in a real world context is going to be more relative to them and make learning more meaningful. I’ve heard of environmental initiatives such as Stoney Creek in Burnaby that have been effective. That said, it takes an enormous amount of time to plan and organize. Working with businesses – supermarkets, entrepreneurs etc. is great, but this also takes a lot of time to plan and organize. Teachers with their own families, (personal responsibilities such as exercise cleaning, meal making), and marking and planning responsibilities, and reporting, and meeting with parents and meeting with other school support staff for students with needs… have a lot on their plate. I think there could be district personnel in charge of organizing and planning these activities – because it would be worthy. But I can’t see how teachers could handle the extra time this would require.
Melanie:
The very last thing we need is to use the schools for promoting extremist causes like environmentalism. Those at Stoney Creek in Burnaby should be fined and then fired for hijacking a public institution for their personal agendas.
While I see considerable value in continuing to build on the existing relationship between schools and public libraries (very strong for elementary grades in particular where I live), I would like to reinforce here the importance of good libraries in schools. School libraries are intended to directly support curriculum and this is not the mandate of public libraries. School librarians can also assist classroom teachers in teaching students critical thinking, how to assess information (in print or on the web) for accuracy, and the joys of being a reader. Public libraries can provide longer hours, study spaces, broad collections in a range of formats, and support for developing a habit of lifelong learning as well as offering programs that encourage early literacy and a love of reading for children. Let’s keep them both strong.
Please encourage partnerships between public libraries and schools! This can take shape in a variety of ways: elementary school students can take field trips to the library, have a librarian visit their class, or have school-wide competitions to see whose class can borrow/read the most library books. Middle school and high school teachers might want to invite librarians into their classrooms to teach students how to use library databases or give great booktalks. Additionally, librarians and teachers could work together on resources lists, recommended reads, etc. Finally, go beyond reading – if a library is close to a school, could a class come there to do their work for 30 minutes? Could an art class use space in the library to exhibit their work? Is it possible for high school students to read with elementary students at the library?
Great idea.
In Vancouver, Britannia Elementary and Secondary schools have agreat partnership with the public library, in fact their school library and the public library are the same.
Also, they use the community centre facilities for phys Ed, so skating at the rink and swimming in the pool. The have a very integrated campus which is a great model for community partnership.
I agree that there is untapped potential in partnering with public libraries. However, something to keep in mind is the impact of having even one class of 30 plus students in a library. Now imagine two or three (and keep in mind class sizes are now uncapped grade 4 to 12 and so will rise). No matter how “well behaved” students are, children learning can be disruptive to those who have a traditional view of what libraries should look like. I believe partnering with libraries is a fantastic idea. However, we have to be realistic about the resistance that will be met by some library employees and patrons. Perhaps we can have kid friendly libraries and more adult orientated libraries so everyone is satisfied?
Public Libraries support learning and are ideal partners for schools. Students of all ages can access information, resources, and learning opportunities in person and online, that suit their individual interests. In addition to collections, programming and information assistance, public libraries offer safe spaces for students in which to study and meet. Public Libraries have a robust technological infrastructure that can be harnessed for collaborative, virtual learning.
PLEASE partner with public and academic libraries! Resource sharing cuts costs for everyone. I remember spending many hours in my high school library and in my local public library as a school aged student, cutting libraries would be doing a huge disservice to our future generations, and our province in the future. I worked at a day camp as a summer job one year, and we had a boy who was disruptive and difficult to manage. However, I saw him a couple of times at our public library and was amazed at how his behaviour changed and how he actually had the ability to sit still and read. Statistics are a very small part of the influence libraries are having on our communities, I urge you to gather anecdotal evidence that these institutions are having a profound impact on our society.